reform is the only way to get the debt and deficit under control. we've got to take it on. >> chris: let me ask you, you say you would consider more revenue but with loopholes -- >> there's so many of them. >> chris: you voted against the bush tax cuts a decade ago because you said too many of the benefits go to the wealthy, not the middle class. once they were passed you have changed your view and said i'm not going to oppose them. it you could get a deal for entitlement reform and take a chunk out of the national debt, why is the 35% top tax rate which you oppose sacred? >> every economist i respect says if you raise tax rates at this time -- the president says that a couple of years ago -- it harms the economy. we're trying to help the economy. unless i'm convinced raising tax rates will be beneficial, obviously i think there's reason and grounds for my position. i also believe that we can and must get an agreement, otherwise i think first of all the markets are going to start reacting. >> chris: we'll talk about that in the next segment. finally